315: Restoring the Trivium

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KMO welcomes Jan Irvan, host of the Gnostic Media Podcast, and Jarett Sanchez, host of The Next Step Podcast, back to the C-Realm to discuss the Trivium, the bedrock of classical liberal arts education which prepares young minds to be effective critical thinkers and self-directed learners. Jarett helps KMO summarize an essay by Dorothy L. Sayers about how the Trivium mirrors and takes advantage of the stages of childhood cognitive development, and Jan describes why the Trivium is now reserved for elites and systematically denied to the children of the proletariat in compulsory public schooling as a means of social control.

 

Music by ALLFLAWS.

  • Blow_In

    Thanks for this show. It lead me to the Gnostic Media site which lead me to the interview of Mr. Gatto.

    I just finished listening to the second hour of the interview. Good stuff, but I found the group discussions inserted into it to be a distraction that broke up the continuity of Mr. Gattos message.. Others may find these discussions helpful though. I will skip past them when listen to the other 3 segments of the interview.

    • Blow_In

      I finished all 5 segments of Mr. Gatto’s interview and pushed aside my impatience with the panel discussion and listened to them as well…. I am glad I did, and am glad that younger people are appreciating and extending this information. I will try to jam some of this stuff down the reluctant throats of some of the young fogies that I know.

      More importantly, I will study the trivium and use it to help educate my grandchildren.

      Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

  • Bill

    KMO,
    you always produce great podcasts but your most recent one on Restoring
    the Trivium was transformational. I was recently introduced to the
    subject through Two Beers With Steve and have listened to several other
    podcasts with Jan Irvin but yours was by far the most mind blowing.

    I don’t recall anyone else staring out the discussion by pointing out
    the connection between the modern word “trivia” and the subject of the
    Trivium. That was the key right there of how the knowledge was removed
    from the public consciousness, by redefining and degrading the term so
    that no one would ever think to look for it. The same redefining and
    degrading operation was done on the term “Liberal Arts”, turning
    something that was designed to liberate the mind into something that
    students who had no idea what they wanted to do could major in in college and come out the other end learning nothing of any use or value.

    This podcast revealed to me, 37 years after I graduated HS, exactly
    what was wrong with my education and why I graduated “knowing” that I
    was no good with math, didn’t understand English, didn’t like to read,
    didn’t have an aptitude for science nor enough imagination for the arts.
    In other words I was a near perfect product of the American
    educational system.
    I have never heard anyone state that Geometry
    is supposed to come before Algebra yet now that it was said I fully
    realize the truth of that, having had my math education sabotaged by
    that malevolent out sequencing. That realization actually brought tears
    to my eyes.

    Thank you so much for covering this subject the way that you did man! Namaste!

  • listener

    hour 2?

    • http://c-realm.com KMO

      I’ll be using a couple of clips from the second hour in an upcoming episode of Psychonautica. I think Jan decided against posting the entire second hour to his website.

  • http://www.7gen.com reikiman

    KMO, very interesting, very informative as always, but I stopped listening in disgust after the nth time Jan Irvan repeated his dogma that compulsory education is automatically bad. I’m sorry, but I just do not buy into that line of thinking that the government is inherently violence upon the people. And as for compulsory education being inherently bad – it’s a logical fallacy. You could have compulsory education that follows the Trivium model (or some other teaching model that produces good education), right? Hence, what’s bad is the teaching model, not whether it’s compulsory. But your guest was dogmatically hammering us with this idea and I could listen no more at about the 50 minute mark.

  • JehovaDirks

    Hi KMO, I’m behind in listening, but have finally managed some time to pay attention. I have been interested in Jan’s work for a while now (Pharmacratic Inquisition was inspiring). I find Jan’s manner of speaking to be difficult to work with, it seems overly abrasive and self-satisfied, but that doesn’t reduce the intensity and quality of the content he’s presenting, it just requires more patience.

    A very strange coincidence has occurred with this one too. I emailed you a while ago informing you of moving back to the states after a spell in the UK, and looking forward to a chance to meet up when I get down to New York (still on? anyone else want to join?). well, my time here is spent working on my next exhibition (Winnipeg, in January), and preparing for migration to northern Canada. As part of this, I’m re-reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert Pirsig (the book in my hands as I landed in Britain seven years ago). I just happen to have listened to this interview with Jan at the same time (not literally, but the same day) as I’m reading through Phaedrus’s disparagement of Aristotelian philosophy, and analysis and synthesis of the pre-Socratic sophists. the pages on Arrete, on rhetoric vs dialectic, Good vs Truth… these all ring true with your enlightening interview. If you haven’t had a chance, I would highly recommend you check out Pirsig’s Method of Quality.

    Looking forward to a beer or two sometime soon,
    Best,
    JD