KMO welcomes Noble Ape creator Tom Barbalet back to the C-Realm to discuss the counterproductive habits of academic philosophers of mind that prompted Tom to start the Noble Ape project 17 years ago. Tom offers the steam trains of Cuba as an example of why he does not worry about peak oil. In fact, Tom says that there’s not an apocalyptic scenario on offer that doesn’t leave him feeling hopeful. The conversation concludes with a discussion of the level of consideration we should extend to simulated beings, particularly ones that humans interact with and have become emotionally invested in. In his closing remarks, KMO explains why he has deactivated his Facebook account.