146: My Invisible Path

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AyasminA returns to the C-Realm to help KMO plumb the darkness for landmarks along KMO’s invisible path. In response to an email from the world’s only credentialed “creative urbanist,” KMO quotes from Kevin Kelly’s blog entry about the fatal flaw in the anti-civilizationists’ agenda. At the end of the program KMO enlists the words of Charles Eisenstein to anchor the over-arching theme of the episode.

Music: Reggae Drift by Adam of the Psychonautilus.

  • http://victoriapandora.livejournal.com/ victoriapandora

    Hey, what’s going on with you???
    Is it in this podcast?
    Downloading now.

  • http://victoriapandora.livejournal.com/ victoriapandora

    Hey, what’s going on with you???
    Is it in this podcast?
    Downloading now.

  • http://carocrow.livejournal.com/ carocrow

    Dude… you don’t just post a photo like that!! What’s going on, you look rather run over, there.

  • http://carocrow.livejournal.com/ carocrow

    Dude… you don’t just post a photo like that!! What’s going on, you look rather run over, there.

  • http://victoriapandora.livejournal.com/ victoriapandora

    As far as entry points to the atchive, after I first found you I just browsed the episodes and downloaded three that looked like topics I was particularily interested in.
    After those I started at the beginning. It’s really fun listening in order and hearing the it evolve.

  • http://victoriapandora.livejournal.com/ victoriapandora

    As far as entry points to the atchive, after I first found you I just browsed the episodes and downloaded three that looked like topics I was particularily interested in.
    After those I started at the beginning. It’s really fun listening in order and hearing the it evolve.

  • http://victoriapandora.livejournal.com/ victoriapandora

    Kevin Kelly

    http://tinyurl.com/cxqmj7

    This American Life. The episode KMO mentioned.
    MP3 download for this is 95 cents.

    After he goes to Jerusalem and sleeps on what is supposedly the very spot where Jesus was crucified, Kevin Kelly has a revelation: that he should live the next six months as if he would die at the end of them. So he gives away nearly everything he owns, and tries to live each day as if his death is imminent — which turns out to be a great challenge. This story was eventually used in a much later program, Shoulda Been Dead. At the time of this interview, Kevin Kelly was executive editor of Wired magazine. Now he’s a contributing editor there, and also runs the Cool Tools website. (22 minutes)

    • http://c-realm.com/ KMO

      Re: Kevin Kelly

      Thank you for that, VP.

    • http://c-realm.com/ KMO

      Re: Kevin Kelly

      Thank you for that, VP.

  • http://victoriapandora.livejournal.com/ victoriapandora

    Kevin Kelly

    http://tinyurl.com/cxqmj7

    This American Life. The episode KMO mentioned.
    MP3 download for this is 95 cents.

    After he goes to Jerusalem and sleeps on what is supposedly the very spot where Jesus was crucified, Kevin Kelly has a revelation: that he should live the next six months as if he would die at the end of them. So he gives away nearly everything he owns, and tries to live each day as if his death is imminent — which turns out to be a great challenge. This story was eventually used in a much later program, Shoulda Been Dead. At the time of this interview, Kevin Kelly was executive editor of Wired magazine. Now he’s a contributing editor there, and also runs the Cool Tools website. (22 minutes)

  • http://qikiprana.livejournal.com/ qikiprana

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why They’re Wrong Part 01

    Hi All – sorry, but this post will come in parts. Thanks for understanding. I like when this happens, I read this primitivism article (http://anthropik.com/2005/10/5-common-objections-to-primitivism-and-why-theyre-wrong/) maybe 2 days before I listened to the cast-thank you kindly! And hope your nosey issues see a clear future-you look so forlorn in the photo-hope you had company! Well, you’re always in my thoughts-knowing that there will be some serious bumps and reorientations…some will show that there was no right decision or that every choice was wrong…but, its not the immediate outcome that should be your guide or the test that you are going down the right path, it doesn’t seem to be relative. The test rather, is YOUR continued application of WILL in ALL humility (you know, as a child, w/o expectations or reference – delightfully focused surrender) if you/we truly cant live any other way – yes, it takes nothing less than this level of willful application to burn through our conditioning (and often what needs to drop away is programming and perceptions we actually like about ourselves) and relieve ourselves of self-pitying attitudes which will be an obstacle to any possibility of achieving a vestige of freedom whether emotional, mental or economic. It has been my experience that the idea of a “Utopia” is a nicely fashioned trap; as well as a construct firmly rooted in western philosophy and is “not” a product of nature…or at the very least not the end result of our ability to apply our will upon nature procuring a particular state of experience (sorry occultists and The Secret followers – again this IS the way it IS, not that you need to do something to yourself to access a law of nature – these people are grasping-then you need to ask why, why are they grasping, what do they not think they have, and who is keeping it from them, and why do they think they need it?); but rather, utopia is a state of acceptance, that everything we are apart of IS our natural state and our utopia, no add mixture necessary…but, veils keep us blind to this simplicity of knowing. Its like realizing…oh yeah, I was made with all of the necessary functioning bits to experience this manifestation of self knowing; what created me is not my enemy and not playing some horrible game on me! I am one of its own beautiful creations…we are as a bird in flight swooping into the embrace of the morning suns rays, or likened to the flowers blossom opening itself in the fullness of its glory to partake in the exchange of vibrations with its fellow lovers of life (romantic you say? no, that’s the heart knowing, and the mind not needing to understand biology to partake in an exchange)…yes, that simple, just living, just being alive, is the greatest most spectacular mind boggling awareness there is. We ARE aware gosh darn it! And can be aware of ALL of it if we truly learn how to see. Open yourself completely…it loves you! That darn mind of ours will drag us off into perpetual mental constructs and philosophies. Is this right, or is that right. Or I must stand for this, turning my back on that…assuming to move towards something and away from something else…oh, silly mind, you never had to go anywhere, when right there before us in what seems the imperfect opportunity, was our unfolding. Sorry, guess that was a lecture, felt inspired though, hope you could receive something in it. Now on to part 02

  • http://qikiprana.livejournal.com/ qikiprana

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why They’re Wrong Part 01

    Hi All – sorry, but this post will come in parts. Thanks for understanding. I like when this happens, I read this primitivism article (http://anthropik.com/2005/10/5-common-objections-to-primitivism-and-why-theyre-wrong/) maybe 2 days before I listened to the cast-thank you kindly! And hope your nosey issues see a clear future-you look so forlorn in the photo-hope you had company! Well, you’re always in my thoughts-knowing that there will be some serious bumps and reorientations…some will show that there was no right decision or that every choice was wrong…but, its not the immediate outcome that should be your guide or the test that you are going down the right path, it doesn’t seem to be relative. The test rather, is YOUR continued application of WILL in ALL humility (you know, as a child, w/o expectations or reference – delightfully focused surrender) if you/we truly cant live any other way – yes, it takes nothing less than this level of willful application to burn through our conditioning (and often what needs to drop away is programming and perceptions we actually like about ourselves) and relieve ourselves of self-pitying attitudes which will be an obstacle to any possibility of achieving a vestige of freedom whether emotional, mental or economic. It has been my experience that the idea of a “Utopia” is a nicely fashioned trap; as well as a construct firmly rooted in western philosophy and is “not” a product of nature…or at the very least not the end result of our ability to apply our will upon nature procuring a particular state of experience (sorry occultists and The Secret followers – again this IS the way it IS, not that you need to do something to yourself to access a law of nature – these people are grasping-then you need to ask why, why are they grasping, what do they not think they have, and who is keeping it from them, and why do they think they need it?); but rather, utopia is a state of acceptance, that everything we are apart of IS our natural state and our utopia, no add mixture necessary…but, veils keep us blind to this simplicity of knowing. Its like realizing…oh yeah, I was made with all of the necessary functioning bits to experience this manifestation of self knowing; what created me is not my enemy and not playing some horrible game on me! I am one of its own beautiful creations…we are as a bird in flight swooping into the embrace of the morning suns rays, or likened to the flowers blossom opening itself in the fullness of its glory to partake in the exchange of vibrations with its fellow lovers of life (romantic you say? no, that’s the heart knowing, and the mind not needing to understand biology to partake in an exchange)…yes, that simple, just living, just being alive, is the greatest most spectacular mind boggling awareness there is. We ARE aware gosh darn it! And can be aware of ALL of it if we truly learn how to see. Open yourself completely…it loves you! That darn mind of ours will drag us off into perpetual mental constructs and philosophies. Is this right, or is that right. Or I must stand for this, turning my back on that…assuming to move towards something and away from something else…oh, silly mind, you never had to go anywhere, when right there before us in what seems the imperfect opportunity, was our unfolding. Sorry, guess that was a lecture, felt inspired though, hope you could receive something in it. Now on to part 02

  • http://qikiprana.livejournal.com/ qikiprana

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why Theyre Wrong Part 02

    I too have been trying to understand this same phenomenon (rewilding/primitivism) for many years, and have also come to a similar conclusion as your guest as well as the author (Jason Godesky) of this above linked article at the Anthropik Network who addresses these very questions, quite well I might add. And although this article does not address the breadth of discoveries I’ve uncovered in my own search, it does shed light squarely onto is what I think the real bottle-neck to one realizing economic (or other) freedom. Yes, you’ve probably guessed right, its culture creation. If you didnt learn these skills as your “norm” during your initial formation (as they would refer to it in french) you will likely spend all of your waking time unlearning what you were cultured with, and then learning and negotiating what does seem true for you. Ewww, that’s tough…cause that culturing process created your unconscious substrate. But, each time you REALLY ask this question, of course with no attachment to the outcome, I MEAN REALLY ASK, you will find your truth opens further, each time you engage and embody it…I like to remind myself of a passage from TS Elliots Little Gidding if I begin to lose site of this…I would encourage everyone to read the poem in its entirely…it is very telling…the Rose and the Fire – hmm…quite occultish. Here’s a snippet.

    V
    What we call the beginning is often the end
    And to make and end is to make a beginning.
    The end is where we start from. And every phrase
    And sentence that is right (where every word is at home,
    Taking its place to support the others,
    The word neither diffident nor ostentatious,
    An easy commerce of the old and the new,
    The common word exact without vulgarity,
    The formal word precise but not pedantic,
    The complete consort dancing together)
    Every phrase and every sentence is an end and a beginning,
    Every poem an epitaph. And any action
    Is a step to the block, to the fire, down the seas throat
    Or to an illegible stone: and that is where we start.
    We die with the dying:
    See, they depart, and we go with them.
    We are born with the dead:
    See, they return, and bring us with them.
    The moment of the rose and the moment of the yew-tree
    Are of equal duration. A people without history
    Is not redeemed from time, for history is a pattern
    Of timeless moments. So, while the light fails
    On a winters afternoon, in a secluded chapel
    History is now and England.
    With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this
    Calling
    We shall not cease from exploration
    And the end of all our exploring
    Will be to arrive where we started
    And know the place for the first time.
    Through the unknown, unremembered gate
    When the last of earth left to discover
    Is that which was the beginning;
    At the source of the longest river
    The voice of the hidden waterfall
    And the children in the apple-tree
    Not known, because not looked for
    But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
    Between two waves of the sea.
    Quick now, here, now, always—
    A condition of complete simplicity
    (Costing not less than everything)
    And all shall be well and
    All manner of thing shall be well
    When the tongues of flame are in-folded
    Into the crowned knot of fire
    And the fire and the rose are one.

    Now on to Part 03

  • http://qikiprana.livejournal.com/ qikiprana

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why Theyre Wrong Part 02

    I too have been trying to understand this same phenomenon (rewilding/primitivism) for many years, and have also come to a similar conclusion as your guest as well as the author (Jason Godesky) of this above linked article at the Anthropik Network who addresses these very questions, quite well I might add. And although this article does not address the breadth of discoveries I’ve uncovered in my own search, it does shed light squarely onto is what I think the real bottle-neck to one realizing economic (or other) freedom. Yes, you’ve probably guessed right, its culture creation. If you didnt learn these skills as your “norm” during your initial formation (as they would refer to it in french) you will likely spend all of your waking time unlearning what you were cultured with, and then learning and negotiating what does seem true for you. Ewww, that’s tough…cause that culturing process created your unconscious substrate. But, each time you REALLY ask this question, of course with no attachment to the outcome, I MEAN REALLY ASK, you will find your truth opens further, each time you engage and embody it…I like to remind myself of a passage from TS Elliots Little Gidding if I begin to lose site of this…I would encourage everyone to read the poem in its entirely…it is very telling…the Rose and the Fire – hmm…quite occultish. Here’s a snippet.

    V
    What we call the beginning is often the end
    And to make and end is to make a beginning.
    The end is where we start from. And every phrase
    And sentence that is right (where every word is at home,
    Taking its place to support the others,
    The word neither diffident nor ostentatious,
    An easy commerce of the old and the new,
    The common word exact without vulgarity,
    The formal word precise but not pedantic,
    The complete consort dancing together)
    Every phrase and every sentence is an end and a beginning,
    Every poem an epitaph. And any action
    Is a step to the block, to the fire, down the seas throat
    Or to an illegible stone: and that is where we start.
    We die with the dying:
    See, they depart, and we go with them.
    We are born with the dead:
    See, they return, and bring us with them.
    The moment of the rose and the moment of the yew-tree
    Are of equal duration. A people without history
    Is not redeemed from time, for history is a pattern
    Of timeless moments. So, while the light fails
    On a winters afternoon, in a secluded chapel
    History is now and England.
    With the drawing of this Love and the voice of this
    Calling
    We shall not cease from exploration
    And the end of all our exploring
    Will be to arrive where we started
    And know the place for the first time.
    Through the unknown, unremembered gate
    When the last of earth left to discover
    Is that which was the beginning;
    At the source of the longest river
    The voice of the hidden waterfall
    And the children in the apple-tree
    Not known, because not looked for
    But heard, half-heard, in the stillness
    Between two waves of the sea.
    Quick now, here, now, always—
    A condition of complete simplicity
    (Costing not less than everything)
    And all shall be well and
    All manner of thing shall be well
    When the tongues of flame are in-folded
    Into the crowned knot of fire
    And the fire and the rose are one.

    Now on to Part 03

  • http://qikiprana.livejournal.com/ qikiprana

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why Theyre Wrong Part 03

    http://anthropik.com/2005/10/5-common-objections-to-primitivism-and-why-theyre-wrong/

    Okay, now back to rewilding or primitivising ourselves. Here are questions taken from the article where Jason has so generously offered to share his insight and experience.

    1. Isn’t it hypocritical of primitivists to use modern technology? If they want to live primitively so badly, why don’t they just run off into the woods already and do it?
    2. We have a stable, abundant supply of food. Primitivists want us to spend our lives desperate as to where our next meal is coming from.
    3. Primitivism would mean a drastic reduction in quality of life–no more medicine, no more art or music. Instead, you get euthanasia, astronomical infant mortality, and a life expectancy of about 30.
    4. Primitivists are misanthropic.
    5. Primitivists are genocidal maniacs whose planned “utopia” requires them to orchestrate the mass murder of 99% of the human population!

    I thought his responses were wonderful, so if you are interested in looking further into advising yourself of the issues facing just such a transition, Jason, decidedly has done some serious and fair analysis on the subject. So, I highly recommend you popping over to see what he’s shed on the subject. The website, which I just discovered, covers much more along this subject too, i.e., foraging, self-sufficiency, etc.

    May you all have a delight-filled day,

    qikiprana

    PS, just found another site with more interesting wrangling with this subject: http://www.primitivism.com/primitivism.htm

  • http://qikiprana.livejournal.com/ qikiprana

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why Theyre Wrong Part 03

    http://anthropik.com/2005/10/5-common-objections-to-primitivism-and-why-theyre-wrong/

    Okay, now back to rewilding or primitivising ourselves. Here are questions taken from the article where Jason has so generously offered to share his insight and experience.

    1. Isn’t it hypocritical of primitivists to use modern technology? If they want to live primitively so badly, why don’t they just run off into the woods already and do it?
    2. We have a stable, abundant supply of food. Primitivists want us to spend our lives desperate as to where our next meal is coming from.
    3. Primitivism would mean a drastic reduction in quality of life–no more medicine, no more art or music. Instead, you get euthanasia, astronomical infant mortality, and a life expectancy of about 30.
    4. Primitivists are misanthropic.
    5. Primitivists are genocidal maniacs whose planned “utopia” requires them to orchestrate the mass murder of 99% of the human population!

    I thought his responses were wonderful, so if you are interested in looking further into advising yourself of the issues facing just such a transition, Jason, decidedly has done some serious and fair analysis on the subject. So, I highly recommend you popping over to see what he’s shed on the subject. The website, which I just discovered, covers much more along this subject too, i.e., foraging, self-sufficiency, etc.

    May you all have a delight-filled day,

    qikiprana

    PS, just found another site with more interesting wrangling with this subject: http://www.primitivism.com/primitivism.htm

  • http://aphilotuspgh.livejournal.com/ aphilotuspgh

    OMG I’m vaguely internet famous now! Thank you so much for reading my email KMO!

  • http://aphilotuspgh.livejournal.com/ aphilotuspgh

    OMG I’m vaguely internet famous now! Thank you so much for reading my email KMO!